For thirty years, the cultural sector has been talking about diversity. The boards, exhibitions, staff, and audiences have still not become significantly more diverse. Museums continue to be criticized for presenting one-sided exhibitions that fail to tell the full story of the heritage and art they showcase. Across the board—among employees, supervisors, and governing bodies—little has changed after three decades of dialogue. Last week, two board members from the cultural sector publicly criticized the Rijksmuseum: the most prestigious museum in the Netherlands is said to be seriously lacking in cultural diversity.

In response to this news, Joop editor Meredith Greer sat down with Dyonna Benett, heritage expert at institutions including Het Grachtenhuis, and Giep Hagoort, one of the board members who voiced criticism in the media. Is the Rijksmuseum too white? What about the rest of the cultural sector? Should things change? Why, and how?

The result was a compelling and passionate conversation about museums and their role in shaping how we view Dutch identity.

Excerpts from the podcast were also broadcast during the night of Friday, September 8 to Saturday, September 8 between 2:00 AM and 4:00 AM on NPORadio1, in the VARA program by Malou Holshuijsen: The Night of the Radio.